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I am an optimist, but my optimism has a small radius--it never extends too far out in the future, since it's so unpredictable.
I adore my confusions and the feelings of lost, misguided, misunderstood.
I often think that we are never actually free, we just shift from cage to cage--and define those cages with nice, vogue names that can entertain a coffeehouse crowd or some who use books/ideas/theory as source of strength (could it be I?) and seek/find connection that way.
Many words like those have "ism" at the end.
I consider myself a humanist--possibly secular in my own way. The magic word here is "OWN." Yet I can easily see how secular humanism can take the shape of another form of religion, another raft for "seekers," who are trying to catch the truth, "DEFINE" truth. So, I prefer simply "humanist." as my sub-title--without even being fully aware of it, of course.
There was a time when I argued about everything religious, superstitious. Don't get me wrong, I am still skeptic about a lot of things, and I do not have any religion. But I think secular humanism is another cage we like to enter, but we cannot see it's edge, since it is so large and covers so many things!
I am not afraid of the cage. I just fear the idea that we may not be able to acknowledge that a cage is a cage.
It can be argued, but someone once said, "if one does not need freedom, he is always free." Well, who knows?
I adore my confusions and the feelings of lost, misguided, misunderstood.
I often think that we are never actually free, we just shift from cage to cage--and define those cages with nice, vogue names that can entertain a coffeehouse crowd or some who use books/ideas/theory as source of strength (could it be I?) and seek/find connection that way.
Many words like those have "ism" at the end.
I consider myself a humanist--possibly secular in my own way. The magic word here is "OWN." Yet I can easily see how secular humanism can take the shape of another form of religion, another raft for "seekers," who are trying to catch the truth, "DEFINE" truth. So, I prefer simply "humanist." as my sub-title--without even being fully aware of it, of course.
There was a time when I argued about everything religious, superstitious. Don't get me wrong, I am still skeptic about a lot of things, and I do not have any religion. But I think secular humanism is another cage we like to enter, but we cannot see it's edge, since it is so large and covers so many things!
I am not afraid of the cage. I just fear the idea that we may not be able to acknowledge that a cage is a cage.
It can be argued, but someone once said, "if one does not need freedom, he is always free." Well, who knows?
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Re: Enter a cage, but a bigger one.
Mon, August 6, 2007 - 6:40 PMit is ignorance that is a cage. not truth. -
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Re: Enter a cage, but a bigger one.
Tue, August 7, 2007 - 1:16 PMnice. course, we all cage ourselves for many reasons, willful ignorance being only a small one.
remember, cages keep you in, but we all also know it keeps the boogymen out.
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Re: Enter a cage, but a bigger one.
Tue, August 7, 2007 - 1:25 PM
"... how can anybody be enlightened?
Truth is, after all, so poorly lit."
-- Rush, "Turn the Page"
Matthew,
I'm not so sure I would agree with this, mainly because it mixes epistemological arguments (which deal with belief and opinion) with abstract terms like "truth" as well as concrete terms like "cage." Though it is quite clear that there is no omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent "loving" god (we've not been able to measure its' presence, the arguments for its' existence don't hold up to intellectual scrutiny, any "theories" (and I put the term in quotes here because I tend to think of a "theory" as something that has at least some substance / measurable data backing it up) that purport its' existence are not falsifiable, etc.), "truth" is as amorphous and flighty a term as anything. "Truth" is very often a constantly shifting, temporally unstable idea; it's like a candle that is viewed from many different angles, in that each perspective can be just as "true" as the others and still be quite different.
In short, truth can be just as much of a cage (if you see only one perspective and aren't aware of the others) as ignorance. "Truth" often just makes us more aware of the cage within which we live (we think we're immortal until we witness death, for instance).
Regards,
John, not trying to get all heady, just sayin' ...
Falling You - exploring the beauty of voice and sound
www.fallingyou.com
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Re: Enter a cage, but a bigger one.
Tue, August 7, 2007 - 1:30 PMthe universe is not made of ideas. -
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Re: Enter a cage, but a bigger one.
Tue, August 7, 2007 - 1:58 PM
Matthew,
... and "truth" is just as much of an idea as any other idea we have. This is my whole point -- "truth" is far from absolute, it varies depending on the perspective from which its' viewed. Sometimes "truth" can free you, while sometimes "truth" only makes you realize that the bars of your cage are a lot closer than you think.
Regards,
John
Falling You - exploring the beauty of voice and sound
www.fallingyou.com
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Re: Enter a cage, but a bigger one.
Thu, August 9, 2007 - 6:04 PMThat may or may not have been true before human beings came along and it may or may not be true that human beings are the only life currently in the universe capable of ideas. We are agents of the universe and our ideas drive us. In that sense, the universe IS made of ideas. Ideas are very much a part of the human experience. We are very much a part of the universe. There is no seperating ideas from universe because there is no seperating US from universe. -
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Re: Enter a cage, but a bigger one.
Fri, August 10, 2007 - 2:41 PMconflating our perceptual models of the universe and the universe itself prevents us from understanding what ideas are as a part of the universe.
"In that sense, the universe IS made of ideas." -
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Re: Enter a cage, but a bigger one.
Fri, August 10, 2007 - 6:46 PM
"... one day while I was sippin' some groove juice, I realized
that in the span of time we're just babies, man"
-- Digable Planets, "Examination of What"
Matthew,
You bring up an interesting point. The universe is almost assuredly much more than we perceive it to be; if only because we are likely not able to perceive all of its' facets. For instance, we live in three-space, so our depth of perception is usually limited by those dimensions. While I feel fortunate to be human insofar as I can contemplate, deduct and reason my way through much of life, I highly doubt that we're able to contemplate all that is contemplatable, deduct all that is deductable, and reason all that is reasonable. In other words, we've been able to figure out a lot about how things work in the (hopefully tiny) slither in the spectrum of experience / knowledge that we live in, but I believe we should be especially wary of applying that knowledge to the entire spectrum.
This is one of my biggest issues with religion, actually -- the premise that we can take what amounts to a static snapshot of the human experience, and then color the entire spectrum of experience with those hues. I don't believe we were "meant" to be here, that we're the goal of some grand process or scheme, that we're bound for oneness with the universe due to our sentience, etc. I tend to view "meaning" as a human invention, born to assuage some of the baggage that we were saddled with when we first became self-aware. In this sense, I agree with your statement -- the universe is _far_ greater than our perceptions of it (and likely very different if viewed from a perspective that we're not privvy to), so we should at least endeavor to remember that our perceptions of the universe are very much limited by our limited ability to perceive it.
At least, I _think_ that's what you're trying to say (hopefully i've not injected too much of my words so as to dilute yours).
Regards,
John
Falling You - exploring the beauty of voice and sound
www.fallingyou.com
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Re: Enter a cage, but a bigger one.
Wed, August 22, 2007 - 5:26 PMexcept that you can go two ways from the realization that our perceptual models are inherently limited, you can enshrine subjectivity as the only realizable and therefore only relevant reality, or you can attempt to understand the universe by attempting to expand and build upon our limited understanding, as science has undoubtedly done. it seems to me that this appeal to "freedom" reflects the former.
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Unsu...
Re: Enter a cage, but a bigger one.
Wed, August 8, 2007 - 9:35 AM<<I consider myself a humanist--possibly secular in my own way.>>
huh? how else can you define secular?
<<I can easily see how secular humanism can take the shape of another form of religion>>
how?
<<I am not afraid of the cage. I just fear the idea that we may not be able to acknowledge that a cage is a cage. >>
if you just acknowledged the idea that a 'cage is a cage', then your statement makes no sense... unless you are excluding yourself from the 'we', which your post implies.
by choosing to define a school of thought as a cage, you do yourself a disservice. or if we're going to mix metaphors, go whole hog. cages have latches... if you know you're in a cage, and you know how to unlock it... how is that different from say ... a house?
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Re: Enter a cage, but a bigger one.
Thu, August 9, 2007 - 5:59 PMPerhaps a way, maybe the only way to prevent secular humanism from becoming another "cage" as you suggest is to always do what probably brought you to it originally and what is fairly uncommon and even discouraged in other "religions". Always ask questions when they need to be asked in your experience AND always be open to the answers discovered ESPECIALLY when the answers seem true and yet uncomfortable to you. To stop asking questions and to accept ANY answer as true everywhere and at all times forever is to fall into the cage you hope to avoid. The one truth that will ALWAYS remain true is this - "The only thing that does not change is change itself." Change will always be with us, which means we must forever remain open to revising our answers. That is uncharacteristic of most religions which is why most religions seem like cages to those outside of them. -
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Re: Enter a cage, but a bigger one.
Sat, September 13, 2008 - 7:33 PMThe idea of being 'caged' sounds awful but I personally believe that MANY people in this world like the feeling of a cage surrounding them; it' comforting. Assigning a title to yourself as a whatever-ist is nice because it's a quick and easy label for those who are very concerned about labeling themselves properly for the rest of the world. Committing yourself to the 'lifestyle' (or as much of the lifestyle as you let the outside world see, anyways) is fun for awhile because you get to show off just how 'real' you are about your whatever-ism. And then, when it gets old and starts to feel like a cage, you simply switch your whatever-ism to something different...and start all over again. So, in essence, no one is every really trapped anyways! :)
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